| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Katie and Stanleys Mom
Top Gold Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 10:36:59
|
Hello Everyone
I don't have a Macaw yet but wanted to ask a question that fits possibly in this catagory. I have posted this same question to my other bird list members and have gotten many different suggestions but most of them are not necessarily Macaw owners. I don't know why I have not asked advice here yet. Here was my original post:
Good Morning Everyone!
I want to get some feedback on a training technique I saw recently. I was at a bird store and witnessed the owner deal with his own personal "Big"
Macaws. These were his private birds all of which do not bite, nor nippy and are very sweet. They do not challenge him or try to get away with stuff. I have always enjoyed these 3 birds: Macho (B&G), Rio (GW) and Rudie (Scarlet).
They
are all very sweet, predictable, non aggressive birds. I had the opportunity to talk to him at length about how they all turned out that way. It happened that on this particular day he had just added another GW to his family and was working with her when I came in. He said I could "watch it in action"
and told me this was how he had taught all his birds not to bite. She was a young bird and had only been with him a few months but you could tell she really liked him. She had come from a home where her people could not deal with her, had received a few good nips and were now scared of her. He got her for free (wish I could have that happen to me :-)) Anyway here is the part I am really curious about. When she would lunge at him or attempt to bite him, he would drop her to the floor, fast and fairly hard. She was sitting perched on his arm which is how he was working with her. The minute her beak came down on any part of him, swoosh, down went his arm full force, the bird plummeting to the ground. Now of course with wings flapping the bird never hit hard, but here was the amazing thing: He spoke no words.he just waited for the GW to be uncomfortable down on the floor and then had her step up again on his hand. He did this 2 times and she completely stopped being poopie with him. He said this was their second session of this and that the first time he had to drop her 4-5 times. He thinks they will only need one more session. Ok, so what would you all say about this??? I have such mixed emotions. On one side I think it seems cruel and yet the bird is actually learning that biting has severe consequences and he is not getting wounded by that big beak. Ok, give me pros and cons that you all can see in this method.
TIA, Deanna
Love and Scritches, Deanna
Contented wife of 25 years to Mark and Mom to Stanley (DYHA)
Katie (CAG)
Mouse and Maizy (the wonder Chihuahuas)
Nugget, Neville and Sophie (The poodle pack)and 4 human children: Andrea 22, Jimmy 18, Baxter 15, and Molly 7. |
 |
|
|
luvsmyfids
Top Gold Member
USA
50 Posts |
 Posted - 03/19/2006 : 21:03:57
|
Okay, heres my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
I don't punish my children or grandchildren or my birds. I discipline them. Punishment has serious negative conontations where I believe that discipline means redirection of sorts or positive reinforcement.
I discipline my fids. Now let me explain. If I'm repeatedly being bitten and my redirection isn't working, it's cage time. I ask my fids if they want to go to bed. I also tell them to be a "good boy" or a "good girl" rather than constantly saying "no bite".
No = negative. Be a good boy or girl = positive reinforcement. At least to me. Hey, it worked with my kids!! lol
I don't ever hit my animals. Not my dogs, not my cats, and definitely not my birds. I also never hit my kids. Nope, not true. My oldest got a spanking when he was about 6 for hitting his teacher. As a former abused child and a former abused spouse, I dont believe that hitting is the solution.
But I do believe in redirection. If Thor, my 16 year old DYHA, bites me and draws blood he is immediately put back in his cage. He is told why he has to go back to his cage and that he is supposed to be a good boy.
The last few times that he has bitten me badly, (doesnt happen often, maybe twice a year), he started yelling, "Oh my God, Oh my God, YOU bit me, you bit me, mom!" Now how do you deal with that without laughing?!?!?
I think that we definitely need to redirect our birds actions but punish them? I couldnt use the tub or shower as a punishment as Suzy suggested because I want their bathing to be a positive thing. I dont want to hit because I know what thats like. I think everyone has their own way of dealing with negative behavior and its up to you to decide how to do it.
Laurie
Magick is found everywhere and in everything. |
|
|
|
Toy
Top Gold Member
USA
390 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 21:27:30
|
I wonder how he'd like it if someone knocked him to the ground or punched him in the face every time he did something someone else assumed he shouldn't? What he is doing is breaking the birds spirit, the same as many did to horses & still do. This sickens me.
I have a friend in Sweden who was told to do this to her CAG. What ended up happening is the bird injured it's beak & also cracked it's keel bone, due to a bad landing, when she dropped it to the floor. To this day the bird refuses to step up & he's now pushing 12 years old. He has a major fear of being dropped.
To me this is a very cruel way to trying to teach a bird.
As far as a bird being uncomfortable on the floor..JaJaBinks (B&G MAcaw)loves to walk around on the floor, as does our CAG & my U2. None of them have a major fear of the floor & I have 5 Toy Poodles whom they walk right up to. They are treated like family. JaJaBinks often comes into the kitchen, climbs the dog gate & then I put her on the counter. She does this when it's time to do dishes, prepare meals, etc. If she doesn't climb the gate she walks around the kitchen, rolls up my rugs, gets into the cupboards, plays in the dogs water dish, & picks on me. What she is doing is no different than a human toddler would be doing. By letting them be part of your daily routine, talking to them like you would a small child, putting up with their child like behavour, you will find you have a much better companion than one you beat or scared into submisson.
The way to make a macaw a happy macaw is to make it's life full of FUN. They are super playful & are the only species of parrot in the wild that takes time each day to play. Being owned by a macaw means a few life style changes, but for the most part they will fit right in if you let them. They love to be included in daily chores, meals, etc. The more you include them the better they are. A happy macaw is not a screamer, but one who makes happy sounds/laughs/etc. They find ways to make up games & fun things. They are very curious by nature & love adventure. It's not uncommon for us to mute the TV so we can hear JaJaBinks playing in her cage & talking up a storm. She's so funny she has us laughing daily.
I wouldn't want a bird with a broken spirit or one who is forbidden to be what nature intended it to be just to prevent a nip or bite.
Toy
Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. |
|
|
|
rex_and_me
Top Gold Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 08:54:08
|
Sorry, I hav been away a while but this roundtabe thing sounds great. As for punishing Rex...I don't (at least I dont think so)Yes, he gets a little to excited with that beak of his but if he does, I put him down on his tree, or back in his cage for a few minutes. That usually works for us. I have tapped his beak...let me re-iterate that..."tapped" not "hit" or "flicked" his beak, and told him "no biting". His avian vet suggested this. This isn't somthing you do for every occasion. I can tell the difference between excited and angry and I try not to handle him at those times.
Dee B |
|
|
|
sandy3038
Gold Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 09:06:13
|
We don't really "punish" at our house either. When one of ours gets nippy due to jealousy or just simply a bad mood, we just put our finger on their beak and say "be gentle, no biting". If that doesn't do the trip, we simply put them back on their playgym and walk away. They ususally want our attention enough to come back and not bite again. We try to just let them be birds without wrecking havock on the entire house! LOL. We have a pretty full house and for the most part, we have very few problems with any of them. They get out every minute we are home, fed well, given toys for entertainment while we are gone, and the center of attention when we are home. I think that keeps bad behaviour at bay. They know they are an important part of our lives and really want to make us happy so I don't think they act out on purpose...usually means something is bugging them.
Owned by: Moko the BGM, Jake and Little One BHCs, Indie the Great Billed Parrot, Nikki the Hahn's, Smokey the CAG, 6 Tiels, 4 Budgies, Zeke the Maine Coon Cat, and Rascal the Munchkin Cat.
|
|
|
|
rex_and_me
Top Gold Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 19:27:24
|
I just try to have fun with Rex. I think he has truly been in a bad mood a few times. Sometimes I can scratch his way out of it, he loves for me to scratch his ears and under his beak, and under his wings. If I can't coax him out of it, I put him down and give him a few brazil nuts (in shell of course) to take his energy out on. Within a few minutes he's back to making those baby noises of his again and wanting to be fussed over. My angel will be 1 years old on April 12....YAY . Any suggestions for big birdie birthday fun???
Dee B |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
ROUNDTABLE: Punishment?
