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macawdreams
Forum Admin
610 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2006 : 23:32:09
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For those of you who are new to Macaw Dreams let me explain what the Round Table is. This is where we all sit around the table and have a great conversation about a bird related topic. The topics are ones that don't often get discussed in depth but are "deep" enough to have some lengthy discussions on. We encourage everyone to add their opinions whether you agree with the person sitting next to you or not. :) So here we go. Grab your coffee (or in Toy's case herbal Tea)and pull up a comfy chair.
Today's Roundtable:If you had a crystal ball, would you do this again?
Today's roundtable is just between us. This is a topic that only fellow bird owners can relate to. OK, here we go.
Let's say that years ago you had a crystal ball. In this ball you saw exactly what was involved in the care and management of birds. I'm talking about WAY before you even knew anything at all about parrots. From the very beginning. This crystal ball showed you the future. I mean from vet visits, grooming, cost, feeding, grocery shopping, chopping produce, cooking, housing, cleaning, boarding, sacrificing vacations, nesting behaviors ... everything. Now, here's the question. After seeing everything would you still own birds?
Before you answer, I don't want anyone feeling guilty or like a bad person if you say no. We aren't talking about regrets here, we are just talking about a hypothetical thought. It doesn't mean you are saying you regret anything or want to take your birds back or get rid of them, this is just hypothetical.:)
I'll go first and my answer may surprise some of you. I'd have to very honestly say no. I honestly don't think that after seeing ALL that is involved in owning these majestic animals would I do it. I'm not saying I wouldn't own birds, I'd probably go for Greys or owning a few more Eclectus but if I truly knew EVERYTHING involved in Macaw ownership I'd have to say no. Instead, I'd put all of my energy and money into programs that help protect and better the lives of wild Macaws in the rainforest. Perhaps I'd even travel to Peru on a regular basis.
There is SO much work involved in owning these big birds. This is not a complaint, it's just reality. I have no regrets and I really greatly enjoy my time with my birds but yes, while I love them dearly, they are a true sacrifice.
I don't vacation anymore, I constantly clean, I literally spend tons of time and money on my birds. Plus, I worry about their future. When I'm not doing all that I just mentioned I'm reading and studying articles and trying to keep myself up on the latest information from ornithologists. Truth be told my birds are a priority and that will never change. My adoption/foster work will also remain a priority and that will never change. They bring me so much joy and pleasure but in return I sacrifice a lot.:)
OK, your turn.
Angie R.
Macaw Dreams Site Owner
"The future of Macaws starts here"
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Toy
Top Gold Member
USA
390 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2006 : 10:37:10
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I'm with you Angie. If I had to do it all over again NO I would NOT own birds. As you said the constant cleaning, cost, lack of being able to just pick up & go on vacation, etc, is very draining.
Now if I had to choose a species it would be a B&G Macaw :). Why? Well they just seem to be so much easier to deal with compared to some of the other species. At least JaJaBinks is. My U2 & CAG are both a handful. They feather mutilate/pluck & have allot of issues, especially phobias. We've tried everything, but alas those hormones take over & there's nothing you can do. I can't afford the hormone shots. I don't have an endless bank account. Heck right now I don't even have a job! With my health problems my job abilities are very limited. I worry about the future & if we we be able to afford to keep them for years to come. On average it costs us a easy $400-$500 a year in seed mix & nuts alone!! I just laid out over $1000 in vet bills for JaJaBinks & Jengo (CAG). The dust the U2 & CAG put off coat everything in my house. The CAG is the worse! Misting/showering them/air cleaners/etc all help, but you still have allot of bird dust to clean up.
They do bring us allot of joy, but we also give up allot for it.
Toy
Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. |
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Donna M
Top Gold Member
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2006 : 15:34:25
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What a question and one that you would never think another bird guardian would ask. But if you think about it, it takes a great bird guardian to ask it and even greater bird guardians to be able to answer with the honest truth. Even though the truth can bring an opportunity for education and experience, it can lead to judgement and guilt.
For me the judgement is easier to deal with, this is life and it is out there. But the guilt I feel for admitting the truth that this endeavor is an exhausting task, is heavy. When my first bird Jagger died, it took me along while to overcome the belief that I had subconsciously wished him away because I once told my Mother that having a bird was a huge amount of work and that I would never do it again. At the time, I thought I would never do it again because he would live for 30 years or so. When I held Jagger in my arms crying I made my husband swear he would never, ever, ever allow me to have another bird and he promised.
As guilty as I feel admitting it, life was easier without a bird. The cleaning and cooking are the easy parts for me. It is the sacrificing of life activities and travel and the constant worrying that you have left them alone too long and in the middle of a party you have this overwhelming need to get home or that funny breathing sound you thought you heard is surely a deadly disease coming on. I try hard everyday to not let it consume my life, but I can’t. I tell my husband I should be a walking ulcer over my animals. Maybe it is because I don’t have kids and to me (I know not for all) my animals are my family and I love them and I care for them like they are my greatest success in life.
Well, I’m a member of macaw dreams because my husband did not keep his promise… and because it is in my heart. No matter how hard I think it is and no matter how many times I say never again, it would take me never ever seeing another bird needing a home to never do it again. I can now admit a little easier and without so much guilt that Joey is a lot of work and I sacrifice things that I question if I should be doing. I also know that she’s not going anywhere just because I think that either.
What I’m really grateful for is the opportunity to share the feelings and the hardships and the joys of having birds. It makes it so much easier to know there are other people out there feeling the same way and making the same sacrifices and questioning their choices. It’s is comforting to know that other people understand that freaking out feeling when a friend suggests a trip to somewhere or come and visit me for a few days. It is a struggle to know what the right thing to do is.
Donna M
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Gpsyps
Top Gold Member
USA
308 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2006 : 09:36:40
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Wow Angie this is really a Heart to Heart topic, and a great one for us to challenge ourselves with.
It's an extremely tough decision to answer. My honest answer is no. Though I can never imagine life without them.
Everyday is a task, a real chore at hand. I have raised 3 kids on my own and now have fids. So the chores, demands, etc; haven't ended, LOL. Our schedule is set around our fids. It's hard and the majority of the time unflexible. Every day is exhausting, limited and a challenge. It is extremely costly and so much of it can be unforeseen. The needs go on and on. However they bring so much joy behind it all that at the end of every day it makes it worth my while. I don't regret the opportunities of sharing life and getting to know these majestic creatures.
I too take on travel limitations, guilt while away from work, etc; and cooking and neverending cleaning. There are also times life makes decisions for us as well. It's never easy sharing life when none of us know what the future may bring.
For me I try to cherish every day I'm given with them to it's fullest and hope for the best!
Natalie & Girls |
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Suzy
Gold Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 00:26:02
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This is indeed a mixed emotions type of discussion. But yes, I would do it all over again. Although there are times when I worry more about my fids than I did my children because there is always something new to learn. And, you always know in the back of your mind that your children will one day grow up and leave home. Our fids are with us forever in most instances. There are days when I am cleaning yet again and I wonder what my life would be like without all the mess, without worrying about keeping them eating right and entertained. And vacations, well that's another story. In the ten years since we got our first fid he has traveled with us everywhere we went in the U.S. That limits some of the things we can do, eating out on vacation is a real trick, finding places with outdoor seating areas, etc. Also, even though there are bird friendly places there are also places where we have been asked to leave because we had our fids. Then there's the cost! Annual vet check-ups run around $600.00 for my two fids, and that's just the well bird check-up. Forget the $1000.00 of additional costs for our egg bound hen last year or the beak and nail trims. The toys--just went to a bird fair this weekend--spent $400 on tree stands and toys. The biggest problem though is travel. I don't feel I can spend more than a week away at one time and I have a really great person who loves my birds to sit with them. I am always worrying if anything will happen to them because it would break my heart to lose one.
But, even after all that, I have never gotten the same amount of sheer enjoyment for any other type of animal that I have ever had and I loved them all. Yes, I would do it again!
Suzy |
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kaperc
Top Gold Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 13:25:48
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When this question was posted, we were in the process of cleaning cages, the screened room, the winter bird room, etc. My stepson is coming to visit so everything had to be done at once instead of a little at a time. It was not a good time to reply!
So I came back to it. When I read Donna's message, I was so thankful for someone who felt so much the same. We still have our original two birds, and now a third. We lost a foundling some years ago and remember the pain of that and we only had him for a week! And now I'm feeling guilty for adopting such a young bird when we are middle-aged. But, it's the way the cookie crumbled: she needed a home and we had one for her.
All the other messages contain some of my own thoughts. I doubt, knowing myself, I would have chosen any differently if I had it to do over. What I WOULD have done was prepare a little more carefully. Even though I did a lot of research before even getting our 'tiel - it wasn't enough. And knowing what I do now, I would only have adopted unwanted or disabled birds. Every member of my family has always had animals - my 92 year old mother just adopted a kitten! Birds have been the best companions I've ever had and now I just can't imagine my life without them now. But that crystal ball would have come in handy!
Kathleen
Owned by Sunny ('tiel), Princess (BFA), and Julie (BGM)
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macawdreams
Forum Admin
610 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2006 : 23:55:19
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Boy, the responses here are excellent, especially yours Donna. I can relate to every single post here.
I don't think we should feel guilty though because this more or less shows how responsible we are. We realize that these birds can't just sit in cages all day and we realize they need a huge life.
I bet money that if we asked the "average" bird owner this question they would say SURE I'd do it all over again, without giving any thought to the question. That's because they don't understand the complex needs of each of these birds. For me it's a matter of wanting my birds to have MORE of everything. More freedom, more varieties of organic foods, more companions, more aviaries, more of everything.
The good thing about our group is that we are indeed honest about the amount of work it takes to provide our birds with more than "average" standards. It takes not only work but patience, money, sacrifices and making our birds a top priority within our families.
Again, I have no regrets and there's no way I want to give up my flock. But, the good thing about our group is that we are indeed honest about the amount of work it takes to provide our birds with more than "average" standards.
It takes not only work but patience, money (you nailed it Toy) sacrifices. Oh, and Kathleen, you really raised a good point about only adopting birds rather than purchasing them. I can honestly say that if the crystal ball unveiled the future of these animals I would have leaned more to adoption than bringing yet another chick in from a money hungry breeder.
It's tough to tell new bird owners that because I don't want to come across as a hypocrite when I tell them they should adopt rather than purchase chicks, after all I did it. But, NOW we know the realities.
Although we can't give them a crystal ball we can sure paint a clear picture about all of this. LOL
By the way, Suzy, when I asked my hubby to join me at the round table I told him that I bet there are parents out there who have similar feelings. Maybe some parents wish they would have had their kids earlier or later etc. Or they may wish they would have finished up their own education or taken a different route with preparing for college ... on and on.
That doesn't mean they don't love their children just as much or that they want to put them up for adoption. lol. To me it just means they realize how much it takes to raise kids today. What do you think Suzy?
Again, wonderful responses, more!
Angie R.
Macaw Dreams Site Owner
"The future of Macaws starts here" |
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Suzy
Gold Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 02:30:48
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Angie,
You are right about children. There were many times I thought about how not having had children would have made my life much easier. I suffered from too little money and too little time. I didn't finish my education until they were already adults and I was too old for it to make much of a difference in my career. And the teenage years, well, let's just say that my sanity was severely tested. But, as with my fids, I can't think of my life without them now.
But as you mentioned, from what I know now, I would have adopted my first fid. I too bought a baby and love him dearly, but I know from experience how wonderfully fulfilling it is to give a homeless or neglected bird a good and loving home.
I think this is a good discussion topic and hope that those considering getting a bird companion will read it and make an informed decision. It is a lot of work, worry, and big sacrifices. If you are not prepared for that then you are not prepared to be a parrot companion.
Suzy |
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DonnaM
Bronze Member
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2006 : 16:27:01
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I'm new to the forums.. I'm a friend of Noelle's and we live pretty close to each other. I have Tinkerbell, GW macaw, Bongo, Cag and Scarlet SI ekkie.
I would NOT do it again. Though I love and adore my birds and don't mind the work, the one thing I can never get over is the feeling that they belong in the wild not in our homes. I wont however feel guilty for having them now.. I can't, they are here and need my love and care, they cannot go back to the wild however I struggle with the idea of people still breeding thousands of parrots every year.
Donna
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pbyeerts
Top Gold Member
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 10:46:56
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My decision is complicated because I have what I consider, and what many others agree, is a difficult macaw. Nimo's complex emotional wounds from his abused bappyhood make life with him sometimes unbearable. However, when he is playing, cuddling, and NOT screaming, he is a joy. We are his forever home and know that we have years to work out all of the kinks so all's good in the end.
I am patiently waiting for the adoring and loving relationship from Nimo that so many of you describe with your own birds. It's a trust issue with him, and I know he may never get there. The cleaning, cooking, etc doesn't bother me at all. We board him when we travel so that isn't an issue for us.
Would I do it all over again? Yes, but not with Nimo. His trauma and our ignorance as first time bird owners has been overwhelming. If I had to do it all over again, it would be with a baby macaw that would bond to me and Mark. But at the same time, we've come so very far together, and he is our heart's delight. As I am writing this, he is downstairs going through his litany of sounds - so funny. Right now he just made a loud noise and said, "Nimo Be Quiet." So perhaps te real anwer is this: My mind I say No but my heart says Yes.
Pamela & Nimo |
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Rhonda
Top Gold Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:34:31
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I agree that the parrots are a great responsibility but I couldn't live without them. I have had to at one point in my life and cried everyday that I didn't have that special love that only a parrot can give. They give a companionship and intelligence that no other animal can share with you. It's unreal the money I spend on my macaws, greys, eclectus and lovebirds but I don't regret one penny. I got my lst bird when I was 5 yrs old and I loved that little guy with all my heart and when I came home and he had passed away my heart broke into pieces and it wasn't until I got much older that I got another bird. I've taken in so many rescue birds that I began to feel like the woman on Home Alone with all the pidgeons on that woman but I made sure each one got what was needed until I could rehome it. I didn't want to give them up but knew I was doing rescue and not keeping them as pets. I just have this constant drive to nurture them. I can't pass up a new food on the market to try if I think it's something good for them and I'm constantly cooking for them. Yes, it's a job and restricting but I can't imagine going through life again not waking up to my macaws sitting out on their playgyms gleaming in the sunlight looking content and saying "hi" to me. I've been down that road of no birds and I don't ever want to have to face that again, nor does my husband. I still mourn what I had to give up but I've had to move on. I have some really bad health issues and there are days I can barely walk but my birds are lst then everything else comes. When you gain the trust of a parrot you've gained something money can't buy. They intrigue me so much. I've taken some really bad bites from parrots and yet like a dummie I keep going back for more. I look at those brown little eyes that are so trusting and rely on me so much and can't imagine a day without them. I just live to understand them more. I read on the internet constantly and try to learn so much and yet feel like I know so little. Nope, I can't travel anymore like I once could but that's okay I've created my own little tropical paradise right here with my husband, dogs and fids. I do have a very reliable girl that feeds when I need to leave but I worry to much to enjoy leaving. I'd rather stay here and entertain people here and let the macaws and other fids enjoy the company. I guess I'm just nuts! lol but they can be trying little boogers!!!! but for some reason that just makes me want to know more. Go figure?...weird aren't I? So, yes I would do it again. Geez this was a long answer just for a "yes". lol
sorry.
Take care,
Rhonda |
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sandy3038
Gold Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2006 : 13:44:41
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This was a tough one for me to answer. I guess because part of me says NO and part of me says YES. We have several birds that we rescued so not much thought had gone into the decision of did we want another bird or not. It was simply a bird in need and NO wasn't a possible answer. So, I guess my answer is that I have more birds than I intended but I really would still do it again. Some days I question that answer...LOL! But all in all, I love them and my life would be so empty without them. They can be very draining emotionally, physically, and financially but my husband and I have no children so they are the children I could never have. I also can't imagine my days without them. Yes, it would be heaven to relax without someone hanging off my head!! LOL But at the same time, how quiet and empty my house would be...ok so it would look like a house and not a bird zoo, but anyway! Of course, like everyone, there are those days when I wake up to the mess and a full day ahead when I really just don't feel well and wonder what I have done. I also miss vacations and the ability to just move anywhere and extra money meaning money to do anything with not purchase extra bird toys. But, I knew when we decided to do this that it really meant forever and I love them enough for all the work and things given up to be far worth all the love and companionship given back.
Owned by: Moko the BGM, Jake and Little One BHCs, Indie the Great Billed Parrot, Nikki the Hahn's, Smokey the CAG, 6 Tiels, 4 Budgies, Zeke the Maine Coon Cat, and Rascal the Munchkin Cat.
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Katie and Stanleys Mom
Top Gold Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2006 : 14:49:46
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Wow what a great question! It has really made me stop and think! I am in such "mother" mode that it is just my day, my week, my life. As my children are growing up and seeking their own way in the world, my parrots give me a security of stableness. It is SO hard for me to let go of anything...especially my children. My oldest, my daughter, now married with her first baby was my very best friend. She still is and I do see her often but she does have her own life and does not live under my roof any longer. I know that is the way it is supposed to be but it hurts my mother's heart so much! MY next child is 18, a boy and growing into a man fast. He is doing all he can to be the best he can be so his life is full and busy. My next son is 15 and I see the same for him as well in such a few short years. My youngest is 8, my daughter, Molly. She is my daily joy but I know the years will fly by and soon she will be off on her own as well. I know my children will always be close because it is just the way we are as a family but it is different when they venture out on their own. The parrots won't grow up and leave me so to speak and for that I cherish the relationship I have with them.
Because I am so naturally a mother, the work aspect is just what i do and i do not consider it a burden. In fact, in a wierd sort of way, it defines me and completes me. I love "doing" for others, for my family and for my animals.
I think I would have to say YES I would do it again. My thoughts are a little different however as to "Who" I would do again. I Love all of my parrots!!! BUT I am so connected with Stella, the B&G. It would be so much fun to just have her because I could take her everywhere without the guilt of leaving others home. In my mind I also have that guilt when the attention to the parrots is not equal, yet my heart wants to give my all to Stella. I would love to just have Stella!! She is everything I had dreamed a parrot would be. Stanley and Katie come in a close second but somehow it is different.
Stella is so easy to take everywhere! She LOVES the horses when we take her with us to the stables and seems to really have developed a relationship with Cody, my Clydesdale. He thinks she is great too. The others are just nervous. I don't take them as much as I do Stella because it was so quick that she became comfortable there. I keep a stand in the tack room and she just LOVES to be with us there. She even rides with me on Cody and LOVES it. We just walk so far. She flew down once and Cody, being the most perfect horse, planted his feet tight to the ground until I could retrieve her. He just lowered his head slowly so she could access his bridle but she was too unsure to take it. I think she would now if it happened again.
Stella can go with us anywhere we go...any vacation, any adventure so she is no burden that way. The others get too nervous and I have spent much more time trying to socialize them to new situations than I ever have Stella. Stella is just naturally calm, inquizative and happy. There is not much that frightens her and everything is a big adventure to her. That makes it so much fun!!!
So...YES i would do it all again...but maybe with all Macaws :)
Love and Scritches, Deanna
Contented wife of 25 years to Mark and Stay at home/homeschooling Mom to
Stella (B&G)
Stanley (DYHA)
Katie (CAG)
Tequila (OWA)
Iris (PBP)
Mouse and Maizy (the wonder Chihuahuas)
Nugget, Neville and Sophie (The poodle pack)and 4 human children: Andrea 22, Jimmy 18, Baxter 15, and Molly 7. |
Edited by - Katie and Stanleys Mom on 07/06/2006 14:54:00 |
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earthtomel
Starting Member
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2006 : 20:31:11
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This takes a lot of thought, but YES, I would do it all over again. I know we cannot have spontanous vacations, and it is a lot of work and expense to care for a Macaw, but the love that I get in return for the love I give is SO valuable to me. I have a beautiful bird that loves me when I have a bad day at work and people think I am too stupid to work for them and tell me so to my face. I can come home to a wonderful bird that is happy to see me and ready for some cuddles and scritches.
She likes to sit by the patio window with me and will put her foot in my hand...so we sit there an hour or so and "hold hands" while watching the birdies outside.
She likes to play hide and seek....she will climb down the kitchen chair and hide under the table....I pretend I don't know where she is and she will laugh....then stick her head out. I will say "THERE SHE IS" and she will squeal and duck back under the table again.
Moments like those are more valuable to me than the few things I miss out on. We still take trips, but call every day to make sure she is ok and we do not stay away very long. But it very much worth it!!!
Melanie |
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macawdreams
Forum Admin
610 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 00:47:07
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The replies to this have just been superb. I can't think of a better way to describe this. It is SUCH a heart-to-heart topic and I have enjoyed reading every single word. As I always say, WOW! :)
I have reached a stage in my avian life where I would have to say that I wish none of us owned parrots. I know that's a terrible thing to say but I've seen SO many birds come into our foster/adoption program that it's heart breaking. Instead of being parrot owners I wish there was a way for us to put forth all of our efforts into helping the wild parrots which have been on the endangered species list for years and years. Their habitats continue to shrink in some countries while other countries still view some species as pests.
With ALL of this said... the fact remains that this is only a wish:)and I can accept that. So, in reality, I just focus on trying to provide these birds with the BEST of everything. The best food, housing, toys, the best life possible. I have no regrets at all and love spending each day playing with and bonding with my flock. As someone said, it's a special, close, relationship and it's one that nonbird owners will never understand.
While it's a joy, blessing and a great deal of fun to have these birds, I don't take my responsibility lightly. I realize that these animals should have been born free and flying in the rainforest so I'm guilty of taking that away from them. So, it's my responsibility to give them as large of a life as possible. They give so much to us... I will spend my life giving back to them. :)
Angie R.
Macaw Dreams Site Owner
"The future of Macaws starts here" |
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RoundTable: Would You Do It Again?
